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KF Clubman
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natew22



Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 1045
Location: Reading

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:51 pm    Post subject: KF Clubman Reply with quote

Guys please enlighten me with all the details of this class!!!! Is it going to be in clubs next year?? I think its an awesome idea, and i think that all clubs should run KF clubman...!!!

Does anyone know whats happening with it?? its not just a one off at PFI is it?? Its such a good idea! I WOULD sell the Max and join the KF Club class no lie!

Cheers
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Alan Dove



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nate

At the moment the class is at the proposal state so it's not been officially sanctioned however it most likely will be from what I can gather.

At the moment TVKC/Paul Fletcher are the only guys pushing the concept as it is very early days. They hope to start racing in September.

The actual karts themselves are fun to drive but expect take a hit on the stopwatch. The Dunlop SL4 tyres aren't as grippy as the KF and Rotax classes. You can probably contact the TVKC to register your interest however.
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natew22



Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 1045
Location: Reading

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for this info Alan!

to be honest, i think its a great idea! really great! A step BACK more into how karting SHOULD be..

also, times on a clock arent my prerogative and shouldnt be anyones to be honest.. If the tyres are less grippy, then lap times are inevitably going to be affected.. but the fact of the matter is, the harder the tyres, the cheaper the racing is, which is a huge plus especially in this economic environment, and it just means that its more down to the drivers talent and control.. again, more like the old karting!

I Like this new class Razz

My other question is.. Will the KF engine used be as reliable as Rotax? cos lets face it, the Max have lots to go wrong, but generally they are ok and dont fail THAT often!!.. isnt the KF engine generally more susceptable to seizures? or is this only in KF1?? also, arent they rebuilt rediculously frequently? Or again, is this just in KF1??
______________________________________________

ps, LOVING the Clubman test too Alan and Mr Dendy! Not only cos a Maranello RS2 was used (my new chassis) which was nice to see working with the new KF layout for the Clubman class.. But i got an awesome view of the chassis's setup! Very Happy Seen a few things to test at Clay this weekend! Laughing

Cheers for that guys! was an awesome test as usual!! Smile
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Alan Dove



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers dude. That was the kart Litch won the title on... also Fore used it prior to Litch using it. So all in all that kart has had 4 living legends drive it Smile Wink

Well speaking to Paul Fletcher the main issue with reliability is the power valves. They cause most of the issues, and I would have to agree. The KF3 doesn't use a power valve so reliability is rarely an issue. I know a load of drivers who put plenty of hours on their motors... in some cases more than rotax

However what I must stress this is a multi engine class so don't get your hopes up about parity between engines. The whole point is to encourage competition between engine manufacturers and tuners. Personally I prefer it to be this way because everything is more honest. No one is telling you everyone is on the 'same motor' when we know some motors are more equal than others.

KF3 engine are selling for next to peanuts atm so it may be worth a punt sometime in September Nate. For the cost of a set of tyres and a motor (which you can sell on again) it must be worth a shot. We'll keep you updated on further developments about the concept.
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28



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 292
Location: Banditland

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to hear someone else doesn't care only about lap times!!

I really enjoyed driving the kart too, the throttle is very responsive (probably something you have never felt in MAX nate Razz) and its more of a challenge to drive properly because of the less grip. It's like a TKM on steroids!

I think its a great class, the only problem is it's not very exciting to drive once you drive wankle etc but I think I'd like to race it if I wasn't in KF.
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rushy



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree nate, thats why we do F Blue, its cheap, but quite slow, but that doesnt make any difference when the whole grid is doing that sorta time.

I think i might try and do the september meeting, anybody else gna give it a go?
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natew22



Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah awesome guys! cheers for the replies!

Yeah I agree about the honesty is the multi engine concept.. plus I think that manufacturers may end up working together in some ways to equalise their engines for the class? maybe..?

N yes Will I love the TKM drive.. which is party why Im liking the concept of this class.. TKM sort of tyres.. with beefy KF chassis's.. Its pretty much what you want to be honest!!??? the 'cool' chassis and engine, with the affordable tyres.. awesome! Cool

N yeah Rushy F Blue sounds intersting Razz i need to read up on that! lol

Im gonna have a gander online and see what sort of price i can find a KF for and Dunlops etc.. see whats about.. I dont have to worry about the weight limit, cos, Im 172Kg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Laughing Ive never been to PF, but I would defo get up there and join the meeting in September if I could scrape together a KF3/2! Smile Plus I wouldnt sell the engine on straight away.. Beacuse if theres news later on that the class is becoming club-ified next year or there abouts, Id just save the engine for then... Or at least have something to sell if i wanted one of the other engines in the class...

exciting stuff guys! Very Happy
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Alan Dove



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

natew22 wrote:
ah awesome guys! cheers for the replies!

Yeah I agree about the honesty is the multi engine concept.. plus I think that manufacturers may end up working together in some ways to equalise their engines for the class? maybe..?


lol it's motorsport Nate not communism Smile The point of the class is to increase competition and development between the manufacturers rather than standing still and stagnating. The manufacturers want to make money and the only way to do that is to make their engine either more reliable or faster. it's what makes motorsport what is is. You want speed in kF go TM but if you want reliability go IAME Smile

Also if they start standardising the enigne the prices will rocket up. Look at Rotax for example. Engines have remained expensive but they are standard. In some ways this is a good thing, but in others people can't afford to enter the class. SO by allowing engines to be improved the KF3 lads sell their engines onto the Clubman lads at a lower price than if they were all standard... like it used to be Smile

The fact is on eBay a whole KF3 engine complete with pipe and carb sold for 550. Had that been an 'equalised' motor it woulda sold for twice that maybe. Also imagine if all the manufacturers decided to do the same with chassis. Imagine how hard it would be if that equalised chassis didn't suit your driving style? Smile
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natew22



Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 1045
Location: Reading

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah yeah!! Laughing yeah soz got the total wrong thoughts in my mind! Laughing

yeah cheers for sorting that out for me!!! Laughing

Im actually very excixted about this!! When there was the first speak of KF, I was hoping it would hit clubs and that i could get out of the Rotax class.. But then Kf became this high budget, Formula bloody 1 class that teams with the most money and mechs won!! Its really annoid me, KF was supposed to have 'saved' karting in Britain, but it killed it!!

But with this KF Clubman class, we're finally taking a step back to how the KF class was originally supposed to be! And how it shouldve been when KF was first launched!!

KF Clubman WILL revive karting in Britain! And itll be cheaper than Rotax which is great!

550 for KF engine you say???? Razz Razz Razz
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DBaldwin



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

great choice on tyres. the sl4 are good tyres, the drop of is very small. they will do two meetings then are only good for practice. as i said the drop off is very small but when they do drop off they seriously drop lol! im guessing the kf would be easier would be easier on the tyres than gbox. v good tyres compared to rotax tyres (i only driven jnr max not snr)

and i agree that seals should be banned form motorsport! equality between motors of the same homolagation in "open" classes is so close, there really is very little to choose between them as all the engine manufacturers and tuners are competing to make theirs the best. although beware, once their three years are up thier resale value will plummet severley! although they wont be much slower (we're talking max of 2 tenths)

so when are we getting rid of scrotax? Laughing
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SRSmatt



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Clubman gunna be a senior class yeah? shame if it is sounds cool, but If it kicks off sounds good after junior tkm
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Alan Dove



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DBaldwin wrote:
great choice on tyres. the sl4 are good tyres, the drop of is very small. they will do two meetings then are only good for practice. as i said the drop off is very small but when they do drop off they seriously drop lol! im guessing the kf would be easier would be easier on the tyres than gbox. v good tyres compared to rotax tyres (i only driven jnr max not snr)

and i agree that seals should be banned form motorsport! equality between motors of the same homolagation in "open" classes is so close, there really is very little to choose between them as all the engine manufacturers and tuners are competing to make theirs the best. although beware, once their three years are up thier resale value will plummet severley! although they wont be much slower (we're talking max of 2 tenths)

so when are we getting rid of scrotax? Laughing


Plummeting prices after homologation is good for the noob entering the class. As long as they are not sold on 'everything is fair'. If I entered MotoX or some form of car racing I sure wouldn't believe I am buying the 'same' as everyone else. Why karting has to be so different I don't know. honesty is the best policy.

What kinda drop of are we looking at Dave with the SL4s after two meetings?
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Taylon



Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 203

PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi guys. Im looking at this as an outsider or foreigner now as i dont live in the UK anymore. So i dont want to upset anyone here, but surely another class is the last thing needed in British kart racing Confused .
I respect Paul Fletcher(its his brain child , isnt it Question ) he has reamined involved in the sport and i remember he helped friend of mine many years ago who wouldnt have been able to run 100Super for a year otherwise.
BUT from what i can see (as an outsider)there simply are too many classes. I left karting when we had Cadet, Junior Britain(Junior A and B had just been done away with and was a good thing), Senior Britain and 100 National. This was karting. No dividing the talent. I went back after a few years to run a young guy and the extra clazsses were coming in i think it was Rotax Junior , TKM etc. I was around for a year , and it wasnt the same sport. Now (6months ago) i started coming in to this forum and i can see there are even more classes-too many in my opinion.
I dont know guys i dont think there needs to be so many, no i KNOW there doesnt need to be because for years there wasnt and karting was healthier.
I know its not possible to go back to the way it was because to many manufacturers , dealers etc would loose out but i dont think another class is the way forward.
This is not an oldskol rant. I am not saying bring back real racing engines(although that would be better too Laughing )but 1 junior class and 2 adult classes(non gearbox) is enough though.
Please dont attack me for over simplifying things or tell me you have to think about the whats running in European Champs or World Champs because you dont.
Good to see some of the guys i know back iusing the forum Very Happy
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SRSmatt



Joined: 13 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I first looked into owner driver racing after doing lots of corps, I was a bit swamped by all the classes and what to go for infact I was reading a intresting articale about choice the other day which goes well with this.

When there are too many things on offer you often feel a little dissapointed with the one you have chosen because of the factors of other things. It can even make the experience of choosing something rather stressful, so definatly with you on that one taylon, I know its impossible but if there was a class where money wasnt the main factor it was setup skill and driver skill, karting would be (still basically is now) the best grassroots to racing, which now Sim racing might threat but thats starting a whole new palava!

By the way is clubman just for older drivers?
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mikb



Joined: 17 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taylon wrote:
hi guys. Im looking at this as an outsider or foreigner now as i dont live in the UK anymore.

Me too
Quote:
So i dont want to upset anyone here, but surely another class is the last thing needed in British kart racing Confused .


It is difficult to disagree but the problem with the classes on offer is that they all seem to be single engine categories with no opportunity to tinker.
I loved racing my 100 National - and still own one to play with now and again - and learned how to be more competitive overs the years by making my own mods. The sealed motor thing has never appealed. I always beleived that motors should be stock standard or modified not somewhere in between where an unnaturally fast motor could command a stupid price.

I know that the single motor classes suit many people but there is probably still a demand out there for a more general class.

Everyone knows there are too many classes but who chooses which ones to drop?

The KF3 Clubman class looks like offering something different.
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