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soundcityracing
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 371
Location: Guernsey
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 Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:20 pm Post subject: KF1 |
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I just thought I would point out...
I got my KF1 NEW in 2008, it has done 2 seasons worth of club racing, a trip away to France where it was put under quite a lot of strain (combined with the 2 seasons racing and france plus practices it has done at least 56 hours), it HASN'T had a new piston or rings, it hasn't been tuned.....
...... and all that I've spent on it in 2 years... is £270 for a bottom end rebuild....
Not boasting (well, yes I am actually...  ) but just pointing out to all those who are spending thousands on tuning engines and all that - why?...
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DGorman
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 423
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Key phrase, without being disrespectful, in your post was "club racing" |
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soundcityracing
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 371
Location: Guernsey
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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Oh I know that... I wasn't trying to say Ive done super 1 and only spent £270 on my engine... (Mind you I probably could BUT would be about 5 laps down... 
Also, and I probably should have actually put this instead of thinking people would assume it, is that KF1 in club racing doesnt need to cost an arm and a leg, so would be good to see more grids of KF1 motors in general...
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Alan Dove
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 2865
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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Compare KF directly to Rotax as a product and KF doesn't offer anything but a little bit of extra speed. What does KF do better than a Rotax? If you can answer that then you've got something to sell.
I inherently prefer KF to Rotax but as a saleable product there's not much you can say about a KF that could persuade someone over from Rotax (and god I've tried) other than a bit of extra hp.
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DGorman
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 423
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| soundcityracing wrote: |
Also, and I probably should have actually put this instead of thinking people would assume it, is that KF1 in club racing doesnt need to cost an arm and a leg, so would be good to see more grids of KF1 motors in general... |
Couldn't agree more. Although I'd prefer to see large club grids of KF2 than KF1 |
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soundcityracing
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 371
Location: Guernsey
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Dove wrote: | Compare KF directly to Rotax as a product and KF doesn't offer anything but a little bit of extra speed. What does KF do better than a Rotax? If you can answer that then you've got something to sell.
I inherently prefer KF to Rotax but as a saleable product there's not much you can say about a KF that could persuade someone over from Rotax (and god I've tried) other than a bit of extra hp. |
Well to be fair up until the 09 engine hit the scene and from what I've read/heard etc it was hit or miss with a "off the shelf" engine in terms of performance whereas our KF1's are 99% on par with each other so you pay your money knowing that each engine is god as dammit the same and theres no hunting for 04 barrels and all that stuff. Howver, I do concede that the Rotax engine has taken over but at the same time, KF engines aren't sealed so any problems can be sorted out on-site at a track or at home etc meaning no expensive labour costs and postage etc.
KF provides waaay more excitement... (and yes I haven driven a rotax to be able to compare it with...) We have just had 2 more drivers added to our KF1 grid making it 5 (wheras before it was just 3 of us) and a couple more in the pipeline too.
Whilst I do concede that lots of people favour the Rotax over KF engines it does kind of annoy me when people automatically "write off" such ideas of getting a KF engine because they think they cost a lot to run and are very unreliable... which, as my first few lines of this topic explain - they are not. The only thing that's a bit ishy is the damn wiring which has not got anything to do with the engine itself.
Plus the KF sounds better, instant throttle response, no bogging down, no mix and match of engine parts (unless you really have that much money and are determined to win at all costs), and as I said just before they provide a lot more excitement...
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Atom1kk
Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Posts: 37
Location: Krefeld, Germany
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:09 am Post subject: |
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So now comes my opinion on the KF 1 engine.
1. Price: You buy an rotax engine and you have everything for 2300€, is around 2000 pound.
2. price for KF engine 3400€ + 250 for the carb + around 300€ for radiator, together around 4000€, it is ca. 3500 pounds.
3. the next thing is, you can drive with a rotax piston around 15 hours before the engine start to loose power, On an KF you loose it after 6.
This are the msot important points, there are alot more
And please do not say club racing, here in germany people start to tune the engines even there.
And 56 hours, its hard to beleave, i wouldnt drive so much even with my rotax. I would be scared that either the piston, pistonring or the conrod would break |
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soundcityracing
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 371
Location: Guernsey
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Just come back from our 2nd Winter Series meeting with a kart which has had a totally different set-up to before no testing at all and set the fastest lap of the day, fastest lap in all 4 races competed in and also set my personal best by 2 tenths... only 0.12 off the lap record for the class... and it wasn't a fluke as just stated
So... I don't see how KF1's can lose pace after 6 hours of running...
I'm 12 kilos overweight too (172kg with kart with weight limit of 160kg) so either I got a lucky day OR I just happen to have the best set-up for our track...
I'm not trying to open a can of worms or a debate with this topic all I was merely stating was that even after 2 years of racing my engine is still going strong with very little part replacement... saying that It will be rebuilt totally after the last winter series round in a months time... nd that my point was why do people bother tuning them even more?
As for the price comparison that sounds a hell of a lot to be honest... I paid about £1800 for mine 2 years ago and that included everything needed to run - except the hose pipes and rad (as i already had one)
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Terence Dove
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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you might be the exception the proves the rule!
I don't think anyone selling KF1 engines would dare promote the longevity of the motor as a main selling point (and I mean longevity in the kind of scale you describe)
But more power to you for deciding to race what is supposed to be the pinnacle of karting, I wish more people would think like that - If youre gunna be a bear, be a grizzly!
Another explanation as to why you are so quick now is that your continued exposure to the karting1 website is improving your speed.... You ought to have thought of that yourself really!! 
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soundcityracing
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 371
Location: Guernsey
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah I know, kind of worrying to be honest...
Having said about the engine itself the more I think about it I am pretty sure I've had at least a piston last year but my godfather (who rebuilds our engines) says I havent...
I started off in Formula A so why bother going backwards... I didn't want to go Rotax - driven several and hated them with a passion (that I wouldn't get one that is)
And yeah I put my success down to the forum lol
If anyones wondering I have a Vortex KF1...
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John Savage
Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 457
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Dove wrote: | | ....... there's not much you can say about a KF that could persuade someone over from Rotax (and god I've tried) other than a bit of extra hp. |
Amen to that Alan 
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soundcityracing
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 371
Location: Guernsey
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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I'm holding my hand up here... after thinking about it, 56 hours can't be right...
Each race meeting lasts for about 24 minutes (3 heats and a final) with 20 race meetings done over 2 years (so 20 x 24) with at least another 2-3 hours on top for practice etc and other things... Anyone care to work it out for me?
It's around the 10-12 hour mark so ive been told so I have no idea where I got the 56 hours from... 
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